Friday, 16 May 2014

Martin Bryant. Police transcript for Port Arthur Massacre.

Read the following transcript and then decide for yourself if you think this slow moving and slow thinking individual was the same one who acted like a combat assassin to execute an operation as efficient as the Port Arthur massacre.
Transcript 1/5
Q. Look Martin, you've obviously got a, a, an interest in firearms as well?
A. Well, I have had an interest in firearms.
Q. How many guns do you own?
A. I own umm, a shotgun and a semi-automatic and another semi-automatic. Three altogether.
Q. Where'd you get those guns?
A. Oh, umm, I can't really say, I haven't got my lawyer here so.
Q. Well we have spoken to your lawyer and he knows that we're talking to you. A, He knows, he knows.
Q. And aah, has no problem with that so aah.
A. Yeah I got umm, one ooh, off a gun dealer and also I got two of 'em umm, got two off ... (inaudible)
Q. Did you? A Yeah.
Q. We have got some of your guns here.
A. Yeah.
Q. Mr Warren might hold them up aah, and we'll perhaps talk about each one individually. That might be the best way, better'n we.
A. It's big, isn't it. Is it loaded?
Q. No it's
Q. No, it's not loaded.
Q. Definitely not loaded Martin I can tell you.
A. Yeah.
Q. This is a Daiwoo 12 guage shotgun.
A. Ohh sorry, yeah I bought that one off umm, Hill, do you know Terry Hill?
Q. You bought that one off Terry Hill?
A. Yeah, yeah.
Q. That's, ahh, what's his business name?
A. I bought, I paid three thousand for it.
Q. Three thousand dollars?
A. Yeah. Guns and Ammo.
Q. Guns and Ammo.
Q. Three thousand dollars.
A. But I mean it's a rare bird isn't it really.
Q. Yeah very. How long ago did you buy it?
A. I never, the funny thing is, I never umm, got round to using it. Even though I bought it, but it scared me the thought of it not working, and probably ricocheting out.
Q. Yeah.
A. 'Cos ... (inaudible) ... and
Q. Mmm
A. And so I never got to use that one.
Q. So you've never used it at all?
A. No, not that one but used the other one.
Q. Martin, how long ago did you get that one, can you remember?
A. Umm, that one. I bought that one about four months ago.
Q. About four months ago?
A. Mmm.
Q. Thank you. You're right, it's certainly a big and ahh, strange- looking thing isn't it?
A. She's burnt that one.
Q. Now this is a ahh, point two two three Remington.
A. It's a mess isn't it.
Q. Or a Colt AR15.
A. Yeah, Colt. Been burnt.
Q. Do you remember where you bought that one?
A. Yeah Terry Hill, Terry Hill.
Q. At Guns and Ammo?
A. Mmm.
Q. How long ago?
A. Month after, ahh before that one, five months ... (inaudible)
Q. Could you speak up again?
A. Five months ago I bought that one.
Q. Five months ago. And you can remember how much you paid for that one?
A. Ahh, five grand with the scope.
Q. Five.
A. Five thousand dollars with the scope on it. It was gonna be four and a half thousand without the scope but it was five thousand with the scope and strap and also got, got some ammunition thrown in.
Q. So that scope that's on it now was on it when you purchased it?
A. Yes. But it was a different color, it was darker.
Q. Is that a ahh, special scope?
A. Has it been burnt, must've been burnt, yeah.
Q. Is that a special scope?
A. Yes, it was a Colt or a special.
Q. Alright, what, what's sort of special about it bearing in mind I don't know too much about firearms Martin but?
A. Can I just look through it, am I allowed to have a look through the scope. Yeah. That's a special one for the gun itself.
Q. Right.
A. Especially made for it.
Q. Did you have it especially made for the gun or was it in stock and just came with the gun?
A. Terry Hill said umm, there's extras with that AR15, and I said well I'd be interested in some extras, but he said it'll cost you more. He said there's a scope, little Colt scope that goes with it and he said a strap and some ammo and he said it'll cost you five hundred dollars more.
Q. Ohh right.
A. So.
Q. Alright. How many rounds of ammunition did you get with that, can you remember?
A. Ohh, about eighty rounds. Eighty to a hundred rounds.
Q. Eighty to a hundred rounds?
A. Mmm.
Q. Thank you.
Q. Have you purchased any more rounds umm, since you know you've bought the firearm itself?
A. Umm, yeah I've probably purchased eight packets of, be twenty rounds in each.
Q. And that's since you've bought this?
A. Since I've bought it.
Q. From Terry.
A. Terry, yeah. Terry's, have you met Terry before?
Q. Yes, know Terry.
A. Still in business is he?
Q. Yes, he's still in business.
A. Yeah ... (inaudible).
Q. Now the next one, why do you ask that ahh, Martin, if Terry's still in business?
A. Ahh, 'cos I didn't have a licence. I had no gun licence.
Q. Sorry I didn't hear you.
A. I had no gun licence and I thought.
Q. So, just let me get this straight. You didn't have a gun licence?
A. No.
Q. Did you make out you had a gun licence when you purchased them?
A. No, I never discussed it, I never, I just said I had the cash on me and he said that's alright.
Q. Did he ever, did he ask to see if you had a gun licence?
A. No, never.
Q. Do you know Terry Hill like as a friend?
A. No, not really. Except when we were living, umm, he, I can still remember when you were young, small and he said you used to come in here and just look around after you'd finished school, I said yeah, so I knew him.
Q. So Guns and Ammo's been in New Town Road for
A. For a while.
Q. Quite a long time?
A. Yeah.
Q. Ohh right I see.
A. I think they were further down the road near the K-Mart at one stage.
Q. No I don't, of course I don't know anything about guns so I wouldn't know.
A. You, you don't own any?
Q. No, I don't own any firearms.
Q. Mr Paine and myself are about the same, we've got really no, well limited knowledge of firearms.
A. Yeah.
Q. Don't like them personally.
A. Yeah. PAINE
Q. Did you always deal with Terry when you went to the Guns and Ammo or did you deal with the staff as well?
A. Ohh there's only that other person, other man there, he dealt, he passed me the bullets, I used to just give Terry the money.
Q. But when you got the guns, you always dealt with Terry?
A. Ohh yes.
Q. Ohh right.
A. I bought some out of the paper.
Q. Yeah. Alright, the next one we'll look at is a ahh, a three 0 eight ahh, calibre, FN weapon.
A. Mmm.
Q. Do you remember where?
A. I've never seen that one before. Never. That's not one of mine.
Q. You sure?
A. No definitely not, never seen that in my life. It's nice though.
Q. Have you ever had a three 0 eight?
A. Three 0 eight, yes. Had a three 0 eight.
Q. Mmm.
A. That was one Terry Hill was repairing.
Q. Ill just ask Mr Warren to pick up a scope we have there on the floor because that might be causing the confusion. I believe that that scope was probably fitted to that gun before we got it. Now does that.
A. No I've never seen that scope before in my life. Never. No. No I've never. Never seen that scope in my life.
Q. Now you say you've never seen that three 0 eight before but you did in fact own a three 0 eight?
A. Yeah, definitely.
Q. Right.
A. ... (inaudible) ..., AR10.
Q. Just a sec, before I go onto that. Where did you get the three 0 eight that?
A. I bought the three 0 eight about, this is going back six, seven years now.
Q. Yes.
A. Out of a paper, out of the Mercury.
Q. Out of the Mercury?
A. Yes.
Q. Right. And where did you buy three 0 eight ammunition?
A. Umm, I managed to get that, a load of it, about six, seven boxes with twenty in each box, ohh about four or five years ago but I had it stored away, been stored away, I never got to use that and, and it's only recently that I got to use it but, but they were the wrong bullets. So I went over to Terry Hill for the first time for years and he said you're using the wrong bullets Martin, you should be using the military hard, hard top bullets. He said the only ones I've got in stock, I've got a case of three thousand rounds and he said it'll cost you nine, think it was nine hundred and thirty dollars. And I said I'll think about it, I'll get back to you on Monday. So it was on the Friday, I phoned him up a few hours later, I said I've got the money, I'll come over and buy the rounds.
Q. So you bought three thousand?
A. Rounds. I couldn't buy anything smaller off him because that's all he had at the time and.
Q. And when was that?
A. That's going back five months.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Four or five months ago.
Q. And is that ammunition.
A. That.
Q. Difficult to buy. You can't can you buy it sort off any gun dealer?
A. Umm, yeah you can buy it, I think you can buy hard top from other gun dealers but it's fairly hard to get hold of.
Q. Alright, we'll have a look at the last gun which is on the floor. And this is a point two two three calibre self-loading rifle.
A. Yep. I've never seen that one before. Mmm.
Q. Well we recovered that one.
A. It's nice isn't it.
Q. Ahh, from ahh, I believe, ahh, from a repairer, being repaired.
A. Mmm.
Q. Does that ring any bells?
A. Repairer. I've.
Q. Have you got any guns at the moment or did you have any guns.
A. That one was repaired for me, that other one, the AR10. That, I took over to Terry Hill.
Q. Ohh, so I've got them confused.
A. Yeah.
Q. That one was okay but the AR10 you had over at Terry Hill's being repaired?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Right, I see.
A. Yes.
Q. Alright. Where did you ahh, develop your love of umm, using firearms?
A. Umm, ohh I just, just loved the thought of owning them.
Q. How long have you owned firearms for Martin?
A. Umm, going back six, seven years. This was the first one I bought, the one out the paper.
Q. Right. So.
A. I've owned air rifles when I was younger.
Q. Did your Dad sort of encourage you to ahh, use firearms?
A. No, no, definitely not.
Q. He was against it was he?
A. Mmm.
Q. Did Mum know you had those guns?
A. Yeah my, ahh, Mum never knew, no. But the funny thing is umm, my Dad said if, when we used to go over to Richmond, he used to point it out, he said if you ever go over there Martin, to that prison anytime, I'm not gonna ever come and visit you, he said. So stay away, stay out of trouble. This, I mean, it's wrong isn't it. I shouldn't be in here.
Q. You shouldn't be in here?
A. No.
Q. Why do you say that Martin?
A. There you go, I don't know PAINE
Q. So Martin. A, Shouldn't be here.
Q. Where did you use these guns, did you practise shooting?
A. I only used them about four or five times altogether.
Q. How many rounds do you reckon you would've practised, you know, any idea?
A. Altogether, probably, probably twenty or thirty rounds out of that AR10 and probably twenty rounds out of that AR15 and that's about it, mmm.
Q. Did you ever go shooting with anyone else in the bush or anything like that?
A. No one.
Q. Just on, just on your own?
A. Mmm.
Q. What sort of car do you have Martin?
A. Ahh, I own a Volvo, a seventy nine model Volvo and a Honda Civic.
Q. Good cars?
A. Mmm. Great cars.
Q. How long have you owned the Volvo?
A. Ohh four years I've owned the Volvo for, mmm.
Q. Any ahh, specific reason or preference you chose a Volvo?
A. Ohh my Dad owned Volvos.
Q. Mmm.
A. That's probably why.
Q. Right.
A. They're all good cars.
Q. What about the Honda?
A. That was a great little car.
Q. Where'd you get the Honda from?
A. Ahh, that was inherited.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Mmm.
Q. And where did you get the Volvo from?
A. That was bought privately out of the paper.
Q. So you went and, you answered the ad?
A. Umm, answered the ad, yes.
Q. And went and saw it?
A. Yeah and bought it.
Q. Hey Martin, how come you never got about, got around to getting a driver's licence?
A. Ahh, I didn't think I'd ever pass or get through the courses 'cos I'm not that bright.
Q. Did you ever get ahh, stopped by the police or anything like that?
A. Well on the way back from Kingston I did, one day with the Honda Civic for, for not having it registered. And then he's asked for some ID, I said I haven't got, he asked for ID. He said what about your driver's licence. I said I haven't got a driver's licence. Ohh he said, that makes things difficult. So then like I didn't appear in court 'cos I didn't have to 'cos I got a fine of about two hundred dollars.
Q. Right. So you, you, how old are you now?
A. So umm, how old am I, twenty nine.
Q. And when did you start driving?
A. Umm, I started, what would it be, twelve months or so ago.
Q. Right, So you've had a pretty good run? A, Mmm. Pretty good run.
Q. You've only been driving twelve months?
A. Ohh over twelve months, probably two years.
Q. And you were living in Clare Street?
A. Yeah. Lived there for quite a while now. Mmm. Mmm.
Q. Just going back to your diving ahh, for a minute Martin ahh, you say you did have lessons with driving or did someone train you?
A. Umm, yes I did.
Q. Right.
A. Paddy. Paddy instructor.
Q. Now you mention you were diving ahh, when you went overseas there?
A. Yeah, in Sweden. A couple of times.
Q. In Sweden.
A. 'Cos they speak English the Swedes.
Q. Right.
A. Mmm.
Q. Where did you do most of your diving?
A. Umm, ohh mainly down Port Arthur.
Q. Ohh right.
A. 'Cos my parents owned a shack down there.
Q. Ohh, whereabouts?
A. Safety Cove.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Mmm.
Q. Was it good down there?
A. Yeah great, great down there. Catch a crayfish and have a ... (inaudible)
Q. Martin, just be, while, before I forget it, can we have a look at the three 0 eight again please Mr Warren. The one with the scope. I'd like you to have a closer look at, look at it.
Q. If I hold it up with the scope, you might.
Q. If Mr Warren holds it like that.
A. Yeah. No, no, I've never seen that one before. Never.
Q. Thanks Mr Warren.
A. ... (inaudible). I wish I had that AR15 in here, then I could probably get out. Jump part of the window, I could probably jump through the window and escape because of this. I don't like being locked up, it's not very nice.
Q. No.
A. ... (inaudible)
Q. Im not surprised, that'd be a fairly common reaction I suppose.
A. Yeah. Yep.
Q. Martin, do you remember the twenty eighth of April, Sunday the twenty eighth of April this year?
A. Aah, no I don't. Was that the day I suppose everyone's talking about. Ohh, about the drama of me being in Royal Hobart Hospital, I think.
Q. That was when you were in the hospital on.
A. On the.
Q. Twenty ninth.
A. Mmm, twenty ninth. Sunday the twenty eighth. Well was that when I was in here or.
Q. Perhaps if I make it easier. Do you recall going to ahh, your mother's place on Saturday night with Petra and having a meal?
A. Ohh yes. Mmm.
Q. How'd the night go?
A. Ohh. That was the day before I got burnt I think. Ohh, the night went well. Went really well.
Q. Have a couple of drinks?
A. Couple of drinks, yeah. Couple of quiet drinks.
Q. Did you drive back to your place?
A. Yeah. Spent the night at my place, yeah.
Part Two
Transcript 2/5
Q.Who drove, you or Petra?
A. Umm, I drove. I think I had the Honda Civic.
Q. You had the Civic did you?
A. Yeah.
Q. Left the Volvo at home?
A. Yeah, left Petra's car at home, yeah.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Left, the Volvo wasn't, I didn't use the Volvo very much, once I sold the boat, the boat. You see that's how I got, I had an inflatable Zodiac. Did you hear, have you heard. And that's how I paid for my AR15s 'cos I got about four, a bit over four thousand dollars for my.
Q. So.
A. ... (inaudible) ... motor because it's brand, it's brand new and I paid nearly nine thousand for it, and it was only three months old. I almost gave it away.
Q. Why'd you sell it?
A. I got sick of diving, scuba diving and I nearly lost me life through a boating mishap with my other girlfriend. I was down past the South East Cape.
Q. Right.
A. And it was just, it was just luck that a fishing boat came along otherwise I wouldn't be here, me girl, me girlfriend wouldn't be, definitely because she didn't have a wetsuit on.
Q. What happened there?
A. The motor actually stopped. Went through one tank of petrol, put the other tank on the hose and one, it was the connection inside the motor had fallen off. I kept on trying to start it, it just wouldn't start, it wasn't until a fishing boat picked us up that actually ... (inaudible) ... such and such was off. And it was ... (inaudible) ... connective something and it was nearly dark and we actually had a couple of flares and that helped alright. That saved us.
Q. That would certainly.
A. I would've been dead. I would've had a, ahh my girlfriend would've been dead the next morning.
Q. That would certainly turn off anyone, anyone off boating I'd reckon Martin.
A. Yeah I'll say.
Q. So you're.
A. And I was starting to get cold feet, my feet were starting to freeze up and, I was shaking, my girlfriend was shaking.
Q. Weather fairly rough was it or?
A. It wasn't that rough, no, but it was cold, it was cold.
Q. How far.
A. It was right up near Hen Island, past South East Cape there, 'cos we launched the boat at Research Bay, went right round there 'cos the weather was good you see and the weather was, we were just coming back, halfway back and it stopped ... (inaudible) ... WARREN
Q. How big was your, your boat?
A. Eleven foot six Zodiac, with a twenty five horsepower Evinrude on it.
Q. Mmm.
A. Brand new it was.
Q. Do you go surfing as well?
A. Yeah, surfing.
Q. Do you?
A. Mmm. I've been once.
Q. Where's your favorite spots?
A. I've been once or twice now. Well usually at Roaring Beach.
Q. Ohh. A, I've, I went surfing not so long ago round there.
Q. What was it like?
A. Good.
Q. Be cold this time of year.
A. Mmm.
Q. Wear a wetsuit?
A. But I forgot to wax me board up that was the only damn trouble.
Q. What difference does that make?
A. It's difficult if you don't wax your board. You can't really stand up on it.
Q. You can't get, you can't get a grip.
A. Yeah. I done a bit of bodyboarding instead on it. Mmm.
Q. Well do you own a wetsuit?
A. Do I, ohh an old one upstairs but I never use it 'cos it, just take all me clothes off and.
Q. Take all your clothes off?
A. And just go in there. I was only in the water for about twenty minutes.
Q. Good God, it'd be freezing.
A. Mmm. The funny thing is, I forgot to take a towel with me so, mmm, I was looking for a towel in the Volvo but I couldn't find one.
Q. When, when are you sort of talking about now Martin, when's this latest incident, your surfing? This is the last time you went.
A. Last time I went, yeah.
Q. Right.
A. Mmm. Before I came into the prison.
Q. Have you ever had a wetsuit or?
A. Ever had a wetsuit.
Q. (inaudible)
A. Ohh yes, I've owned wetsuits.
Q. Yeah.
A. Sold my other wetsuit not so long ago, me new wetsuit.
Q. Where do you get your money to umm, you know buy things like boats?
A. Where do I get my money from, it was left for me through an estate.
Q. Ohh right, I see.
A. Dad left this money and, yeah, mmm.
Q. Do you handle your money carefully?
A. Pretty carefully, goes pretty quickly. I like spending money.
Q. Do you?
A. Mmm. I'd rather spend it than keep it.
Q. You've certainly spent it on those overseas trips.
A. Yeah, spent a little bit. Unfortunately I couldn't go on any more otherwise I would've gone away in May. I was informed nicely that I wasn't able to go away for a long time, for about twelve months, which upset me greatly.
Q. Why's that?
A. 'Cos maybe once or twice a year because I only have to accumulate and, and just couldn't go away on any more trips for a while, but that upset me a lot, yeah.
Q. Martin, if you'd excuse me, I'd just like to leave the room for a second.
A. Alright.
Q. If that's okay with you, Mr Warren will be here with you and I'll ... (inaudible) ...
Q. When you say it upset you, what umm
A. Mmm, just threw me back 'cos I didn't have anything to do.
Q. Mmm. Right. Who, who actually told you that? A, I wasn't able to go on a trip probably for six months and that was ohh, the people, Perpetual Trustees, a lady that looks after my money.
Q. Right. Did you have a regular contact with her?
A. Yeah, we phone up whenever I, I needed something to talk about. Ohh, here's me court case is it?
Q. Gees I'll say. Hey Martin, what, sorry I keep going back to these guns. What did you, ahh, you know you said you went a couple of time to practise shooting, where did you go?
A. I used to only go to one spot, between Dunnalley and Eagle Hawk Neck, there's a turnoff there, just past Mundunna there on the left, there's a road, a couple of roads as you just go.
Q. So.
A. To shoot at trees, see if the guns like a.
Q. Just let me get this straight, you go through Dunalley?
A. Yes.
Q. Towards Eagle Hawk Neck?
A. Through Mundunna, so you go past Mundunna, between Mundunna and Eagle Hawk Neck, there's a forestry place there.
Q. Ohh yeah.
A. A couple of roads.
Q. And just turn up to the left and.
A. Used shoot a few tin cans.
Q. Ohh right. Bottles?
A. Bottles, no not bottles 'cos they break and they could injure animals and.
Q. Did you ever make.
A. I never used to shoot the animals.
Q. Sorry about that. Did you ever make your own targets to shoot?
A. I had a couple of targets on boards.
Q. Did you.
A. Cardboard usually.
Q. And how many times would you have shot 'em?
A. Ohh four or five times, then I used to put the gun back in the car and used to leave and go home.
Q. And did you take the targets with you?
A. Yes.
Q. Ohh right.
A. But they were just home-made targets out of cardboard.
Q. Yeah. What did they, what did you draw on them?
A. I used to draw circles.
Q. Circles. And umm, when you practised your shooting, did you, where did you hold the gun?
A. Up like this, on my left.
Q. So you're left-handed?
A. Umm, I write with this hand.
Q. Ohh that's right, sorry, yeah.
A. I, but this is me finger.
Q. So if you held a gun, you would pull the trigger with your, a finger on your left hand?
A. Yeah that's right, yeah.
Q. Ohh right. And aah, did you ever practise shooting from the hip?
A. No never.
Q. Never?
A. Uhh uhh.
Q. Ohh right. And did you get pretty accurate?
A. No not really 'cos like I said I only used that AR15 about twenty rounds in that one and, and not many round, more rounds in the AR10. So, and I, I never got round to using the shotgun because of it ... (inaudible) ... I heard from Terry that it had a bit of power to it.
Q. Mmm.
A. So.
Q. Just getting back to Terry Hill, where, did you think it was strange that he didn't ask you for a gun licence?
A. Yeah, he never got round to asking me for one, I was gonna let him know though.
Q. Did you think flashing the cash in front of him?
A. Ohh yeah, I was gonna let him know I had one if he asked.
Q. Yeah.
A. Maybe because he knew me when I was that small he knew me and.
Q. So he saw you grow up basically coming into the shop.
A. A couple of times, yeah.
Q. Over several years?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah. Ohh, alright.
A. I s'pose it helps you, when you got the money it helps. People pass things over if you've got the cash.
Q. If you've got the cash. What was the set-up when you wanted, wanted cash for something Martin, did ahh, you have to contact someone at the?
A. Ahh, yeah, I used to go intlo the account once every three months for money.
Q. Your accountant?
A. No account, my bank account every three months.
Q. Ohh right.
A. It's managed by Perpetual Trustees.
Q. Right. So you just had to go and see them and ahh, tell them what you wanted the money for?
A. Only see them before the three months, if I've spent that money, had to, I had to live on within three months I would go in and see them.
Q. Mmm.
A. If I needed a, the boat fixed, they help me with the boat or an overseas trip but unfortunately I went through the money a bit too quick and.
Q. Did you, have you got a credit card?
A. Never.
Q. Never owned a credit card?
A. No, never.
Q. Ohh, you wanna get one, they're the best things out.
A. Do you reckon I could've gone for extra trips and they wouldn've known?
Q. Ohh well you've eventually got to pay.
A. (inaudible)
Q. The money back but ahh.
A. Ohh would've, would've been more of a benefit for me.
Q. Did you have a cheque book?
A. Never. No.
Q. So only ever used cash?
A. I only used cash.
Q. So when you bought the guns from Terry Hill, you paid in cash, was that correct?
A. Yeah, just money in an envelope, I said here's the money Terry. I didn't, didn't bother asking him to count it or not, he just trusted, just trusted each other and passed, passed me over the gun.
Q. Did he ever give you receipts?
A. No, I didn't want any. Never asked for one.
Q. And did, were you ever served by his wife?
A. No, last time I saw his wife was when I was about this high, when I was about sixteen, seventeen.
Q. Ohh right. Ohh.
A. But she's a nice lady, have you met?
Q. No I haven't met her. And what's your favorite drink, you know, with your meals?
A. I like the old can of Guinness.
Q. Guinness?
A. Yeah.
Q. There's a man after my own heart.
A. Are you a Guinness man?
Q. I'm a Guinness man, yeah.
A. Where's a can of Guinness, I'd love a can of Guinness.
Q. What about wine, like wine or?
A. Yeah wine's good.
Q. Australian wines or?
A. Yeah, Aussie wine, red wine. I can't, don't want to talk about this, alcohol.
Q. Ohh right, we won't.
A. It's getting to me.
Q. Aah. Ahh.
A. Wish you could get me out of this place, or even if you could let me mix outside with the other prisoners, be good.
Q. Do you know why you're here?
A. Know why I'm here, well Inspector Warren was saying in the Royal that I was on one murder count.
Q. That's correct.
A. Is that correct.
Q. Mmm.
A. God, I wish that wasn't the case.
Q. We all do Martin.
A. Mmm.
Q. We all wish that.
A. There you go.
Q. Martin, I'm gonna just get Mr Warren to pick up that ahh, sports bag on the floor and show it to you.
A. It's a nice one isn't it.
Q. It's a very nice bag.
A. Mmm.
Q. Seen that before?
A. No never, never seen that before.
Q. Well I believe you.
A. I've got a couple of sports bags. I've got a rubber black one upstairs at Clare Street I bought ...(inaudible) ...
Q. Well I believe you bought that in Myers or Fitzgeralds or somewhere in town, accompanied with a, a young women earlier this year.
A. Earlier with a young woman, I don't recall buying that.
Q. You sure?
A. No, not at all. If I said that that was mine, I'd say that was mine but.
Q. Ohh.
A. No.
Q. have you ever had a bag, a bag like that?
A. Bag like that, I've got a couple of sports bags. I've got a red one, I can't, ohh a bit like that and a blue one, just all blue at home but.
Q. Do you recognise the brand name there?
A. No.
Q. It's a Prince brand.
A. Ugh ugh, no.
Q. Because it's funny, you said, did you say you liked playing tennis?
A. Tennis. I haven't played tennis for about 12 months or so with Mum.
Q. Yeah. 'Cos Prince make, principally make tennis equipment, shoes and gear and racquets and.
A. Mmmm.
Q. Did you know that?
A. No I didn't.
Q. Ohh.
A. No.
Q. Thanks Mr Warren.
A. Ohh with my girlfriend you reckon I bought that.
Q. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. A, You, you said that you think I bought that bag in Myers. You said the.
Q. I said I believe you bought that in Myers or Fitzgeralds in the company of ahh, a young woman, yeah. And you said.
A. No.
Q. Do you think you might, you could have done and you just can't remeber or you?
A. No I don't recall having a sports bag, at the last time I bought a sports bag was, like this one I bought in Franklin.
Q. Well I'm sorry I honestly believe you bought that bag.
A. Mmm.
Q. Martin. I'm sorry about that.
A. That's alright.
Q. I believe you bought that bag.
A. That's okay. Mmm.
Q. Martin ahh, Mr Paine asked you before about you recalling the night you had dinner at your mother's and, what happened that night when you came back home?
A. Oh well I forgot what I had that night for tea at my Mum's but I think we went out to the pictures, I'm not quite sure. But we went out, that's right went out, sat, went out dancing and stuff. Went to the Cadillac Club for a couple of hours because Petra is my girlfriend umm, her cousin usded to go there.
Q. Could you speak up Martin, I can't hear, I'm sorry.
A. Ohh we went to the Cadillac Club that night with me girlfriend.
Q. After dinner at Mum's?
A. Mmm. Went back, I think we went back to my place for a while and then went out and umm, but her cousin wasn't there but we spent a few hours there. Then we went to Hadleys, had a drink at Hadleys and left and went home.
Q. What time would you have got home?
A. Ohh must've been about eleven, twelve o'clock that night.
Q. Did you set the alarm clock when you went to bed?
A. Umm, no, never usually set the alarm clock.
Q. What time did you wake up?
A. Ahh about seven, eight o'clock.
Q. What did you do then?
A. We had breakfast like we used to do and then, ohh have, had a shower together. Had breakfast, then I said to Petra, well I'll see you on Monday. She usually goes home on the Sunday a lot, likes to go home to her parents on the Sunday and just, 'cos she doesn't get to see her parents very much.
Q. And what'd you do?
A. I went surfing. It got me surfboard and went surfing.
Q. Did, what time did you leave the house, can you remember?
A. Ahh, must've been about eleven o'clock I reckon.
Q. Eleven o'clock?
A. Yeah, when the sun came up and it got a bit warm. Mmm.
Q. And whereabouts did you go mate?
A. Whereabouts did I go, I went round to Roaring Beach, surfing.
Q. Do you remember setting the alarm when you left home?
A. No.
Q. Sure?
A. No, definitely not. Ohh right.
A. Last time I set the alarm was when I went away to Melbourne. Mmm.
Q. And did you travel straight to Roaring Beach?
A. I travelled straight to Roaring Beach, yeah.
Q. Stop anywhere on the way?
A. I think I stoped and got a cappuccino, yes, at Sorell. Mmm.
Q. You didn't stop at Midway Point?
A. Midway Point, no.
Q. Get petrol anywhere?
A. Get petrol, no, didn't need to get petrol. 'Cos I got some petrol a couple of days beforehand. Filled up the tank and, mmm.
Q. Buy any tomato sauce on the way down?
A. No, no tomato sauce.
Q. Ohh.
A. Why would I want tomato sauce for.
Q. Well I don't know.
A. Things, funny things. I only, I only as you know the things I know, apart from that, that's all I can let you know. Mmm.
Q. Do you know.
A. If I can help anymore.
Q. Do you know David and Sally Martin?
A. Ohh, yeah, I knew them well.
Q. You knew them well?
A. When I was about, when I was about that high.
Q. When did you last see them?
A. I saw them I reckon back in 1991 when I saw them in town. No it wasn't, they were going to Calvary Hospital to visit some friends.
Q. I don't believe that.
A. Calvary Hospital to visit friends.
Q. I don't believe that.
A. Why?
Q. I believe.
A. I went down, I went to their, their house on the Sunday but they weren't home. You said last time you saw, saw them. You didn't say, did you go and see them? I went down to see them but they weren't there.
Q. Ohh sorry. Ive got confused.
A. You got them confused, ohh. Yeah I knocked on the door and there was no one at the guest house.
Q. And that's on the Sunday you went surfing?
A. Yes. 'Cos I went down 'cos apparently over the years they were renovating the guest house and I thought I'll call in and see them and have a chat to them.
Q. So what you're saying is you wouldn't have ever spoken to them for some years?
A. Yeah, that's right. Would've been good to have seen them but there was no answer at the door.
Q. What about ahh, the ahh Martin boys, have you seen them recently?
A. Yes, I was with me girlfriend, must've been ahh, eight months ago. We were over at Eastlands doing a bit if shopping and Glen, Glen Martin, that's one of the sons, we went back and had a, I think it was a cappucinno, ice coffee that day at the cafeteria.
Q. Did you talk to.
A. Sorry I can't talk very well 'cos we I haven't had a drink or anything to eat today and I'm a bit worked up.
Q. Would you like a drink of water or something?
A. Yeah or a cup of tea would be nice.
Q. I'll see if I can arrange it.
A. Alright, thanks. Then I'll be up like this talking to yous. Yeah, what a lovely place at the Martins.
Part Three
Transcript 3/5
Q. Yeah. What sort of memories have you got of that place?
A. I've been informed by some security guards here that it's been burnt down to the ground ... inaudible ... been burnt down to the ground. Is that so?
Q. Well look, just wait till Mr Paine gets a drink for you and just have a rest for a few minutes okay.
A. Mmm. Am I allowed to have.
Q. Feeling alright mate?
A. Ohh yeah, I'm feeling good.
Q. Are you?
A. Yeah. Am I allowed to have a read of them?
Q. No, they're ours mate.
A. They're yours, yeah.
Q. I don't think you'd ahh, find any great interest there mate.
Q. I'm not a very good waiter.
A. Ugh, ugh.
Q. Do you have to go past Seascape to get to Roaring Beach?
A. You can and you can't; you can go out past Seascape to get to Roaring Beach or you can go, cut, cut off at Taranna and go around to Roaring Beach.
Q. So which way did you go that day?
A. I cut up at Taranna, went around Roaring Beach. I ... inaudible ... the circle around the, past Port Arthur.
Q. Could you speak up Martin sorry.
A. I actually cut off at Taranna to go round to Roaring Beach that day.
Q. But you didn't say that you called in at the ahh, ahh, Seascape?
A. Seascape I did, that was after I went surfing.
Q. After you went surfing?
A. Yes.
Q. Ohh right, sorry. Where'd you park your car at Roaring Beach?
A. Umm, at the car park there. It's small.
Q. I don't know the area.
A. Ohh there's a small carpark at Roaring Beach and it takes about five minutes to walk into the surf.
Q. So it's quite a long walk for the carpark to the beach?
A. Yeah, about a five minute walk.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Mmm.
Q. What color's your surfboard?
A. It's umm, all different colors, it's got a bit of purple, it's got a bit of white and, it's a Stranger surfboard.
Q. Did anyone else see you at Roaring Beach?
A. There were two other people bodysurfing on that day.
Q. Did they have wetsuits on?
A. They did, short ones.
Q. Short ones.
Q. Did, ahh, were you talking to them at all?
A. No.
Q. They saw you?
A. I reckon they did but they were, they was, they were that, oh a fair distance away.
Q. Mmm.
A. And if I was surfing at one end, they'll surf at the other.
Q. What were you wearing umm, before you obviously took your clothes off to go surfing?
A. I was wearing a tracksuit. And ahh, I was wearing a whole tracksuit but the other half of the tracksuit was blue. Mmm and a jacket.
Q. Did you walk from your car to the beach with that on?
A. Ohh no, I had umm, ohh with my clothes.
Q. Yeah.
A. On? No I had to wait around for a while because I forgot the towel and I was shivering a bit and I put my clothes on, they were a bit wet.
Q. So you put them back on at the beach?
A. Mmm.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Had to stand for about five or ten minutes till I dried off.
Q. And after you left Roaring Beach, where'd you go then?
A. Umm, dunno, I stopped ahh, at umm, Nubeena and got a coffee and I think I got a toasted sandwich too.
Q. Do you remember where that was?
A. I was at the shop there, it's a little shop near the school.
Q. A little shop near the school you got a toasted sandwich and a cup of coffee?
A. Yeah.
Q. What'd you do then?
A. Then I left and drove around past Port Arthur and went and, went in to see the Martins. Mmm.
Q. Was there anyone else there when you ahh, called in?
A. No, I umm, unfortunately I held up a car, I took ahh, I saw this car I liked and got umm, held up the person in the car and kidnapped him.
Q. Kidnapped him?
A. Mmm.
Q. When you say held up.
A. That was actually past the Martins. Ohh actually, that was on the corner of Palmers Lookout. No I didn't really, didn't know whether I'd let you know you're not gonna let anyone else know. You're not gonna let anyone else know. Yeah, no, I stopped the car, I was in the Volvo, I stopped the car on the corner, there was a nice looking BMW and I asked them to get out of the car but the ...
Q. How many people were in it?
A. There was a child in there, in the back and a lady and the man. The man, I got him out the car, I had my gun with me and I said I want to take your car, so I took his car. I got, then his wife or girlfriend got into the Volvo with the child and I left, I drove off.
Q. So you drove away in the BMW?
A. Yes.
Q. With another male person?
A. Yeah, he was in the boot. I put him in the boot of the car.
Q. How did he get into the boot?
A. Bit like the Ben Morrison case isn't it?
Q. You remember the Ben Morrison case do you?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah, what, what.
A. Umm.
Q. What do you remember about it?
A. I remember I saw you on television and I saw you that day at the Royal. I thought you were connected with Ben Morrison. Yeah I thought that was a rather dramatic.
Q. Mmm.
A. 'Cos Radloff's in here.
Q. Who's in here?
A. Radloff, the man that was involved in the Ben Morrison.
Q. Have you ever met him have you?
A. No, never.
Q. No.
A. Only heard about him but. Did you ever meet him?
Q. No, I never actually met him, no.
A. Ohh.
Q. Have you met him?
Q. But I know him.
A. You know him, yeah.
Q. Yeah.
Q. Have you met him Martin?
A. No, I I've only read thingns about him in the paper, mmm.
Q. What sort of things ah, do you think about him?
A. I don't know. Funny guy. I think things went wrong with him.
Q. Mmm.
A. Like they did with me and. Paine:
Q. Back, just.
A. And later on you'll think twice why did, why did you do these things and, yeah.
Q. Martin, just back to the BMW. How did this guy get to get in the boot?
A. I put him in the boot because I had a gun.
Q. Which gun did you have?
A. I had the umm.
Q. Can Mr Warren hold it up?
A. That AR15. You see if people didn't do these unfortunate things, you guys wouldn't have a job.
Q. Well there's a lot of truth in that Martin, let me tell you.
Q. That one there?
A. Yes.
Q. Yeah.
A. That was the one.
Q. This is the one.
A. It's a sweet little gun. Because it's so light. How light is it?
Q. Can you remember what you said ahh, this fellow?
A. Hey mate, can you get out of your car please, I'm gonna take your car.
Q. Did, and you had this pointed at him did you?
A. Yeah I had it pointed at him.
Q. Right.
A. And moving it backwards and forwards with his wife and child too.
Q. Was the gun loaded?
A. Yeah the gun was loaded, yeah had about eight, nine rounds in it. Mmm.
Q. And where did this take place Martin sorry?
A. At the Fortesque Bay turnoff, just, ohh about three or four minutes away from the Martin's farm.
Q. To which side of ...
A. That was.
Q. ... The Seascape is Fortesque Bay turnoff?
A. Ahh, before you go to Seascape on the way to, on the way to Hobart.
Q. So it's on the Hobart side of Seascape?
A. Mmm.
Q. Right. And where did you drive then?
A. I drove full speed, it was about, I was going about 140 Ks up the road and went into Seascape. Just drove down there in the BMW.
Q. Where, can you remember where you drove when you went into Seascape?
A. I remember skidding on some grass and, I had a heap of petrol, had some petrol with me, I put some petrol in the BMW.
Q. And what happened then?
A. Well what happened then, I knocked on the door to see the Martins but there was no answer. And what happened is I remember the explosion.
Q. Where was ...
A. I think, I don't know whether I put the car on, lit the car up or not.
Q. Sorry?
A. I don't know whether I lit the car up or not but there was an explosion.
Q. Where was the man that was?
A. He must've been trapped in the boot, the hostage.
Q. Where did the petrol come from?
A. A service station.
Q. Which service station?
A. Umm, where do you get the petrol, in Elizabeth Street self serve.
Q. So you had it in drums?
A. Mmm.
Q. Can you describe the ...
A. Plastic, just plastic drums.
Q. What color were they?
A. Red.
Q. Red plastic containers?
A. Mmm.
Q. How many did you have with you?
A. Ohh two or three on me. Just in case, I used to often run out of petrol you see and oil, I didn't have any oil on me at the time but I had petrol.
Q. When did you say you ran out of petrol, in the Volvo you're talking about.
A. Mmm.
Q. How come you ran out of petrol?
A. Ohh the, it, it was the gauge was pretty, fairly faulty you know.
Q. The gauge was faulty?
A. Yeah.
Q. Ohh.
A. And then.
Q. How did the BMW go?
A. good.
Q. Do they go petty well do they?
A. Yeah.
Q. Was it an automatic or manual?
A. Automatic.
Q. Mmm. Paine:
Q. What model was, was it, do you remember?
A. Well, I was a ... inaudible ... Ohh it was a fairly high model, fairly big model, you know. Mmm. Worth a fair bit of money they say, fifty, sixty thousand dollars a car. I was rapt up in it when I saw it.
Q. Mmm.
A. I would love to own a BMW.
Q. What color was it?
A. Gold. It was a gold BMW.
Q. After you left Roaring Beach and before the BMW, did you speak to anyone?
A. Only the, think in the shop in Nubeena when I got the toasted sandwich and ...
Q. Did you speak to anyone before you went to Roaring Beach surfing?
A. Ahh, oh I had a coffee at Sorell.
Q. Coffee at Sorell.
A. Yeah. q. Right.
A. And something to eat, I forget what i had to eat. Q, And what about Mr Larner?
A. Mr Larner. Larner's were the people who used to agist the horses umm, my Mum and myself had a horse and my sister, we used to just, they've got a, got a farm.
Q. Speak up.
A. They've got a farm at Port Arthur. Mmm. No, last time I seen them was probably going back ten years ago, mmm. But then.
Q. Did you used to go down to Port Arthur regularly sort of, of weekends and holidays?
A. Mmm. Nearly every weekend. Mmm.
Q. Is this when you were a young fella?
A. Mmm. The Martins won a farm too, next to the Larners.
Q. Were you on your own when you went to Port Arthur, oh Roaring Beach that day?
A. Yes. Mmm. I was. I wish I'd took my girlfriend but like I said, it's good for her to go home on a Sunday to her parents.
Q. Alright, back to Seascape. So.
A. Yeah, back to Seascape.
Q. You got out of the car.
A. Back to the Pink Palace.
Q. Is that what you used to call it?
A. Yeah, most people down there used to call it the Pink Palace 'cos it's pink.
Q. Right so we've got, you've got out of the BMW?
A. Mmm.
Q. Tipped petrol, where'd you tip the petrol?
A. I don't recall because it ws a vast explosion and I had my gun strapped around me.
Q. Which one?
A. The AR15 there.
Q. The one Mr Warren lifted up a short time ago?
A. Yeah. Mmm.
Q. Right. And what'd you do with that?
A. And umm, I also had me shotgun.
Q. Your shotgun?
A. Yeah, And I don't remember anything else.
Q. Where did you have the shotgun Martin?
A. I left that in the Volvo.
Q. When you went to Seascape?
A. Yeah.
Q. You left the shotgun in the Volvo?
A. Yeah. 'Cos I was all shaky 'cos I had this bloke hostage and ...
Q. What about his ahh, what about the lady?
A. Yeah I got her to go, get into the Volvo so the child went in too. She was just there shocked. Devastated. Mmm. So ...
Q. Did you actually knock on the door at Seascape?
A. Mmm, few times, went around the back, knocked on the door, no answer.
Q. Do you remember talking to anyone that morning, that same morning at Seascape?
A. No.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Mmm. Paine:
Q. Did you go inside at Seascape?
A. No. You can ask me questions. It'd be interesting if I could hear some of yours, you know, like your other, if you've got other things that you could tell me on you report.
Q. Did you get the hostage's name?
A. No, not at all.
Q. So apart from ...
A. What have you got on your report? Is there other things that you reckon I've done down there?
Q. Yes there are.
A. What like?
Q. Well you see.
A. Tell me.
Q. If you could tell us.
A. No I don't.
Q. Do you, you've already said that you rememberd me going to see you at the hospital?
A. Ohh yes. Mmm.
Q. And that I told you that you were being charged with ...
A. A murder count.
Q. A murder.
A. Yeah.
Q. What recollection have you got of that?
A. Must've been the hostage, the bloke in the BMW must've died.
Q. That's what you think it is is it?
A. Mmm.
Q. Do you remember me telling you who you were charged with murdering?
A. No I don't ... inaudible ...
Q. Do you remember me mentioning a name?
A. A murder count. No I don't I remember yes, I remember you mentioning a name but ...
Q. Mmm.
A. I don't actually vaguely remember who it ws or, who was it actually?
Q. Right, well I mentioned to you.
A. Mmm.
Q. I told you you were being charged wih the murder of a woman called Kate Scott.
A. Ohh.
Q. Does that register with you?
A. No. I mean I let the lady go into the Volvo, I didn't hurt her or anything. No I don't register, it doesn't register.
Q. Did you have any favorite restaurants at Port Arthur? A, What sort of work did she do?
Q. Well I don't know to be honest ahh, Martin.
A. Mmm. Ahh, no favorite restaurants, ohh Kelly's is pretty good, that's at, out, just it's not quite into Port Arthur. You turn off, that's actually in Stewart's Bay ... inaudible ... Paine:
Q. And is that next to the service station is it?
A. Umm, next to the service station. It's about a kilometre.
Q. So you recommend we visit that one?
A. Yeah recommend.
Q. But that's the only one?
A. Damn chair, it's a nuisance when they're not that comfortable these ... inaudible ...
Q. No ours aren't that comfortable either.
A. Let's swap then. Mmm. Mmm.
Q. Did you actualy go into Port Arthur site that day?
A. No I wouldn't have because it would've cost me. In think about twenty five dollars to have gone in. It would've been pointless for me to even have thought about going in. 'Cos I didn't have, I had only about ten, fifteen dolars on me.
Q. How did you pay with your ...
A. For the day.
Q. Your cup of coffee that you said youi bought at Sorell?
A. Ohh I had some coins.
Q. What did you have the coins contained in?
A. In the glovebox in my car.
Q. Just loose in the glovebox?
A. Mmm. That's about all I had that day, coins. Gold coins.
Q. Did you need another drink?
A. Yeah, my lips are drying up.
Q. I suppose when you lived at Port Arthur, or when you used to visit Port Arthur, there wasn't a fee to get into the site?
A. Mmm.
Q. Times have changed haven't they?
A. Yeah. Is there a, is there still a fee, have they still got the ...
Q. Well I supppose so.
A. Mmm.
Q. You have to pay a fee to get into all parks and reserves don't you in Tasmania?
A. Yeah, people weren't happy there because they've got that toll box to pay to get into Port Arthur.
Q. Have you ever gone into Port Arthur and paid the toll?
A. Umm, it was there but when my parents had the shack, had a sticker and you had a shack or residence, you didn't have to pay so you just drove past.
Q. What about say in the last couple of months?
A. No, never. I haven't been in Port Arthur probably six, seven yars. Mmm.
Q. Have you toured around the state, Tasmania as, extensively or?
A. Not, not, went up to Deloraine a couple of times and Launceston and ...
Q. Do you know people up there?
A. No. No I don't.
Q. Oh right.
A. It'd be good actually to have some friends in Launceston you could stay with. Yeah I wish it had a few more friends. But I didn't have a great deal of friends at school so it made things difficult.
Q. Back at, back to Seascape. What happened when no one answered the door?
A. I went round to the back.
Q. You went round to the back? And what did you do there?
A. No answer the door there either.
Q. No.
A. So next thing is I must've played around with petrol.
Q. Must've played around with the petrol.
A. Mmm.
Q. What do you mean, you must've played around with the petrol?
A. Set fire to the, to the car.
Q. Can you remember doing that? You say you must.
A. No I can't. Vaguely. Vaguely remember a flash and I must've been in the car when it went up 'cos I got burnt so. Mmm. Someone's whistling.
Q. And you said to us earlier that you think that the hostage at that stage must've been in the car, that's, is that correct or?
A. In the boot.
Q. Must've stil been in the boot?
A. Yes.
Q. Yeah.
A. Mmm.
Q. How do you feel about that Martin?
A. Pretty awful. Mmm.
Q. Just excuse me for a moment please Martin, do you want another drink?
A. No, no.
Part Four
Transcript 4/5
Q. Ahh.
A. Shame me legs are tied up.
Q. Sorry?
A. Shame these legs, I might be able to take them off.
Q. No, leave, leave them the way they are I think.
A. Otherwise I might get in trouble.
Q. Mmm. So don't, don't ahh, play with them you might get yourself in trouble.
A. That is why I might've been better off if I wasn't alive anymore wih all this. This bullshit.
Q. Just excuse me Martin.
A. Ahh, it's turned off I suppose. You've got a hot drink, you're lucky. Some interesting guns. Unknown voice: Ahh?
A. Some interesting guns there. Unknown voice: Mmm.
Q. How's the feet?
A. Oh my leg's aching a bit. That doesn't matter umm, it's good to have a talk to people. I tell you I'd rather be in at Kentucky Fried Chicken at this minute.
Q. Martin just ahh, why did, why did you, I'm rather interested ahh, to know why you made the comment just a minute ago, about you said, you said you'd rather be dead or something?
A. Well at this umm, now I can't remember now what, what I was thinking. Ohh that's right that umm.
Q. Just talk up a bit Martin?
A. Ohh I wouldn't have to worry, worry about this would I, I wouldn't be in prison would I, but and all the burns, having to put up with all the burns and stuff.
Q. Mmm.
A. Be easier for you wouldn't it if I was.
Q. Be easier for me?
A. Yeah.
Q. Well, it really doesn't make any difference to me Martin, so.
A. Mmm.
Q. We don't like to see anyone ahh, die to be perfectly honest.
Q. How did you get the burns?
A. From the fire I spose.
Q. Which fire?
A. I, I was involved in down at the car. The BMW.
Q. Can you remember how you started that fire?
A. Must've been with a match.
Q. With a match?
A. Mmm.
Q. Do you carry matches with you?
A. Not very often, I don't smoke so there's no reason for me to carry matches or lighters.
Q. Mmm.
Q. You don't smoke at all?
A. No, not at all.
Q. Clean-living person?
A. Try to be.
Q. Have you ever had a smoke Martin or ...
A. No, not at all.
Q. Mmm. So ahh, why would you have the matches?
A. Probably because ahh, there happened to be a box of matches in the BMW, jacket, in me jacket.
Q. In a jacket there?
A. Yeah.
Q. What type of jacket was that?
A. Inside 'cos I umm, wore it a couple of times when I used to light like an open fire at home so I forgot to take the box of matches out ... inaudible ...
Q. What type of jacket was that Martin?
A. It was a Ripcurl, it was a black Ripcurl.
Q. How long?
A. It would've went to about there.
Q. What, went down to about your mid thighs?
A. Waist, yeah.
Q. So it's a long jacket?
A. Yeah.
Q. Ohh. When, the hostage, did you, did he just get in or did you handcuff him or anything like that?
A. Umm, handcuffed him or anything, no. Ahh, what was that?
Q. Well do you own any handcuffs?
A. No, never, never owned handcuffs in my life.
Q. Ohh right. Do you remember what he was wearing?
A. Ahh, just a sports jacket, a shirt, jeans.
Q. Excuse me one moment, having a technical problem.
A. Like I said, I put you all, through this and wouldn't be here now if I wasn't.
A. I want to know if I can sit over there on one of them chairs, make it easier ... inaudible ...
Q. The trouble is they control those sort of things, not us.
A. inaudible
Q. Can you describe the clothes the hostage was wearing?
A. Ahh, he had a sports jacket on and ...
Q. Do you know anyone called Jamie?
A. No, not at all.
Q. What about Rick?
A. Rick, no. I don't. I've got no recollection of him.
Q. Do you remember seeing a white ahh, small japanese car, like a Corolla?
A. Corolla, no. Not at all.
Q. Did your Mum and Dad ever want to buy Seascape? A, No, no.
Q. Did you ever want to buy it? A, No, umm, I would've loved to have bought the Martin's farm, that other one, next door to the Larson's but.
Q. And that's in umm.
A. Just ... inaudible ... it's beautiful.
Q. What's the name of the road?
A. Ahh, Palmers Lookout Road.
Q. Palmers Lokout.
A. Yeah, I'd like, what I did, asked them a few times but Mrs Martin didn't want to sell. She said ... inaudible ... one day and I ... inaudible ...
Q. When did she tell you that?
A. When I was smaller, when I was about sixteen, seventeen.
Q. Ohh back in school days?
Q. Was that when you first said that you'd like to buy that property or ...
A. Ohh a few times but that was about ... inaudible ... I talked to my mother that night and she said no I'm not interested in helping out.
Q. Is that when the Martins bought it?
A. Yes, back in '78. That upset me that did. Mmm.
Q. Did Lindy like, used to like going down there?
A. Yeah Lindy loved it. Lindy had a lot of friends.
Q. Ohh right.
Q. Did you have many friends down there when you were a young fella?
Q. Excuse me just a moment.
A. ... inaudible ... I had friends under the water.
Inspector PAINE leaves the room.
Q. On the water?
A. Sea. They were my friends, mmm, weekend used to scuba dive.
Q. Mmm.
A. Maybe once, maybe twice a day. Dad used to take me out a lot, over.
Q. Did Dad ahh.
A. My Dad was a ... inaudible ... man.
Q. Did Dad do any diving when you were diving or?
A. No.
Q. He'd just sort of take you out?
A. Mmm. Start the little seagull engine up.
Q. Mmm.
A. In this ... inaudible ...
Q. We're just having a few ahh technical problems. Your father always enouraged you though to sort of get into the diving or?
A. Yeah always.
Q. Right. Want another drink Martin?
A. No, no, that's alright. They get a bit smelly after a while these bandages.
Q. Well you can notice, I can't notice 'em so.
A. ... inaudible ...
Q. Sorry?
A. I don't even know what day it is today. I lose track of the days. I'm losing, I'm losing my mind.
Q. It's the, the fourth of July actually today.
A. I thought you were gonna say that ... inaudible ... lose your mind.
Q. It's Thursday today the fourth of July. Remember ahh, earlier when you said that you saw Glen Martin at Eastlands?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah. Did you know that he had a shop there or?
A. I'd known for quite a while, yeah, me and me Mum.
Q. Mmm.
A. We used to go up to the shop and just look in, ohh he must own the shop.
Q. Mmm.
A. See him working in there. 'Cos his daughter's got a shop too, at Sandy Bay. Has a milkbar.
Q. His daughter?
A. Mmm.
Q. Ohh right.
A. Do you know the Martin's at all?
Q. Ohh I know Glen Martin yeah.
A. Quite well?
Q. Ohh reasonably well.
A. Mmm. So what would be the value in the house to burn down, apparently its sposed to have been burnt down ... inaudible ...
Q. I've got no idea. Can you remember what you said to Glen that day or, at the shop?
A. I asked for a cappuccino. How are you Glen and how is your brother.
Q. Mmm.
A. How's your Mum and Dad.
(Inaudible background conversation.)
Q. Mmm.
A. Have you been in there for a drink with him at Eastlands?
Q. Ohh could'be been Martin. I really wouldn't know where his shop was in there so. I might've went, been in there not knowing you see.
A. Mmm.
Q. Just excuse me for a while.
Q. Martin there's just ahh, just go back a couple, a couple of steps now. When you took the hostage, now you've said you, you can't remember his name?
A. No.
Q. You had your gun?
A. Yeah.
Q. And, and you said it was loaded?
A. Mmm.
Q. Now how was it loaded ahh, did it have a magazine or what?
A. Yeah, it had a magazine.
Q. Right.
A. Had a magazine.
Q. Alright. How many ahh, rounds do you think was in that magazine?
A. There was only eight rounds because I put ten rounds in it and I fired two rounds be, when I left home on Sunday. Target.
Q. At which target did you fire them Martin?
A. At which.
Q. Those two rounds, what did you fire them at? A. I fired 'em at a little, umm, sometimes I use a saucer ... inaudible ... or tin cans or whatever I see.
Q. So you didn't fire it at a, one of your homemade targets that you were talking about earlier?
A. I could've umm, I don't know whether I had a homemade target on me that day but umm, no I dunno, I'm not sure now.
Q. Did you do that at that place past Mudunna that you told us?
A. Mmm.
Q. So you stopped and did that.
A. I've been there various other times too.
Q. Yeah.
A. Couple of times.
Q. So had eight or nine rounds left in it you say?
A. Yeah, about that. Can't be quite sure about that, it was less than ten.
Q. How many does the magazine hold in total?
A. 20.
Q. 20.
A. Or up to 30 sometimes.
Q. Up to 30?
A. Yeah.
Q. In the same magazine?
A. Mmm. It's a lot isn't it.
Q. Did you always maintain a full ahh, full lot of rounds or not?
A. No because I never, I didn't want to disturb the peace with having a gun, a gun, 'cos they make quite a big bang.
Q. Mmm.
A. Jump around a bit.
Q. The gun jumps around a bit does it?
A. They kick a bit. It's the sound that's worse, it's pretty loud.
Q. Mmm.
A. Didn't want to get in trouble with the neighbours because I didn't have a licence you see when I was target practising.
Q. Which neighbours are you talking about?
A. Whoever they were when I was target practising.
Q. Mmm.
A. I didn't want to get in trouble, if they heard the guns go off, the gun go off, thought they might call someone in and.
Q. Why did you have the guns in the car on that day?
A. 'Cos I wanted to target practice. I often took them when I went down that way surfing or, used to go down there and just to, say at Dunalley and have something to eat or drink and, at the hotel or take their guns down there and just.
Q. Speak up a bit please.
A. And just use 'em as targets, a couple of times, just made me feel good, just letting, letting a coule of rounds off.
Q. You went, you used to go down in that area a fair bit then?
A. Mmm.
Q. Would it be fair to say you go down there mare than ahh, you know other parts of the State?
A. With the guns?
Q. Mmm.
A. That's the only place I used to take the guns.
Q. Right.
A. Nowhere else and it's only been the past six, seven months that I've actually used the guns. Before that I'd never used them, before in my life.
Q. Did you think that, did you think it was safe to have the ahh, firearms loaded in your car?
A. Umm, well they've got a safety catch thing.
Q. So you always kept 'em in you car did you?
A. Mmm.
Q. Even when you were at home?
A. Mmm. It's only seven month's ago that I got that other one out, that AR10, that I never got round to using it but I'd used the wrong bullets so that was seven month's ago that I found out, I went to Terry Hill and got.
Q. Mmm.
A. That's, it's only been seven months that I've been firing 'em. Mmm.
Q. A little bit earlier I think you said it made you feel good to umm, use the rif, firearms, why did it make you feel good?
A. Ohh just exciting, just shooting at targets. I dunno, just having something, having a firearm.
Q. Did you ever shoot at game?
A. Never, never, never came to my mind to.
Q. Do you like animals?
A. Yeah, love animals.
Q. Mmm. So that's the reason why you wouldn't.
A. I've been brought up with animals.
Q. Sorry?
A. I've been brought up with animals.
Q. Mmm. And that's the reason why you wouldn't shoot them, is that right?
A. Mmm, that's right.
Q. Do you remember ahh, that morning you went down to Roaring Beach, buying a cigaretet lighter form a shop?
A. No, I can't. Which shop is that?
Q. Midway Point.
A. Not at all, not at all, I didn't stop at Midway Point.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Definitely.
Q. How can you be definite about it?
A. I don't know but I didn't stop at Midway Point. I remember stopping at the bakery at Sorell.
Q. Sorell. You didn't buy a lighter there?
A. No.
Q. What about fire lighters?
A. Fire lighters. Ohh, got them in me house, got 'em stored up in the house, quite a few, but.
Q. What for?
A. To start a fire.
Q. Did you have any in your car that day?
A. No, not at all.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Yeah, positive.
Q. Do you remember stopping at the Forcett shop?
A. Forcett Shop, umm, no I don't. I used to stop there now and then to get a coffee but that's about it.
Q. When you went down that day, did you call into Eagle Hawk Neck, you know the Blowhole or anything like that, that day?
A. No.
Q. To have a look on the way?
A. No.
Q. No.
A. Drove past all them.
Q. You don't remember ahh, talking to anyone on the side of the road for instance or?
A. No, I can't recall talking to anyone.
Q. You don't remember going into the Port Arthur site, that's what you said before?
A. No I don't.
Q. At all?
A. At all.
Q. When do you reckon you were there last?
A. Mmm, quite a number of years.
Q. You sure?
A. Yeah. Mmm.
Q. Could we cover that bit about umm, Seascape again where I asked you umm, did your family ever want to buy it. Could you go over that again for me please Martin?
A. I never wanted to buy Seascape.
Q. No, I think, didn't you say your father had expressed an interest?
A. Not on Seascape, but the farm, back in '78.
Q. That was the farm in Palmers Lookout Road?
A. Mmm, the Martins owned that.
Q. Right.
A. Still do. Mmm.
Q. How, you, you mentioned earlier on when we first started talking about how long it was that you'd, how long ago it was that you'd seen the Martins ahh, and it was what, when you were a teenager was it?
A. Yeah.
Q. Yeah and you haven't had anything to do with them since basically?
A. No. You mean the sons or the?
Q. No, Mr and, Mr and Mrs Martin?
A. No, ... inaudible ...
Q. But you haven't either, you haven't seen the boys either have you for a while?
A. No, not at all. I haven't seen Darren since I was about this high but I've seen Glen obviously, about four months ago at the ... inaudible ...
Q. Can you remember when the Martins, that Mr and Mrs Martin, ahh, bought Seascape?
A. Back in the '80s, middle, '84, '85 I think they bought it.
Q. Mmm.
A. Mmm.
Q. Did you go down there at all anytime after they'd bought it?
A. Ahh, this is the first time in my life that I've been down there to see them.
Q. What did you think about it?
A. I thought I'd call in and. Ohh I though it was great, having a host farm.
Q. Mmm.
A. Worked hard all their lives, renovating, took them years to build it, renovate it and to start it all up and it's just so sad to see, apparently it's burnt down, it's so sad to see it burnt down.
Q. So you know Seascape's burnt down?
A. Yeah. Been informed.
Q. Who told you that?
A. A doctor, and security guards.
Q. What else have they told you?
A. They said.
Q. Could you speak up please.
A. They said that people had been burnt inside there. Mmm. So I don't know how many people were burnt inside the Seascape Guest House.
Q. I'm just a little bit confused here Martin because you seem to know a little bit about or a fair bit about what's happened and what they've done to that place, now, how, how did you know that happened?
A. 'Cos when you used to drive past you could see, you, every few weeks, while my parents had a shack, you could see them working on the place, renovating the homestead.
Q. This is when you used to go down surfing?
A. No, no, this is when my parents had the shack.
Q. Right, okay.
Q. When did your parents sell that shack?
A. About 1991, '92. So they were working on the, I think they opened up the guest house then but in the late '80s they were renovating. Took 'em, I think it took 'em five or six years to build it up.
Q. Martin, going back to the BMW as we were just talking about the Seascape and the car, why did you put the man in the boot?
A. Ohh because to take him hostage, I thought I'd get in less trouble if I got caught having him in the boot, but I don't know, I just thought, I was a bit worried that if he didn't go, he'd go off in my car.
Q. And why'd you think you'd be in less trouble?
A. I didn't, I didn't want to shoo... 'coz I wouldn've got caught, probably wouldn've got caught you see, he would've gone off in my car, rang the police straight away so I thought I'd take him hostage and let him go later after taking the car for a spin but and when I drove along, I thought I'd go down and see the Martins. Mmm.
Q. What trouble did you think you were in?
A. Ohh, it just came to me to take, take this car, get hold of this car and take if for a drive and it just felt good.
Q. Do you think.
A. It's possible.
Q. Do you think... inaudible...
A. That's all I've done wrong in my life. The only other thing was on the way home from Kingston, getting pulled up.
Q. Are you sort of saying that Terry Hill shouldn've supplied you those firearms?
A. Ohh I don't know, he's a good man but, mmm. .... inaudible....
Q. So are you blaming Terry Hill for what happened?
A. Well I'm not blaming anyone, it wasn't Terry Hill's fault, I got that one out of the paper, don't forget.
Q. True.
Q. Mmm.
A. So they're available ...inaudible... advertise 'em. If they don't advertise 'em you wouldn't get 'em. It wouldnt've happened.
Q. So.
A. I mean, it's alright for you guys but you're probably glad that it's happened 'cos it's a job.
Q. No, no, no.
Q. We're not glad anything's happened like that Martin.
A. It's no good to me either 'cos I'm in here. .... inaudible.... That's all.
Q. Do you think that you're not shutting something out of your mind and not being completely open and honest with us here Martin about that day?
A. I'm honest.
Q. Yeah.
A. About everything.
Q. I just wondered whether you're not really wanting to tell us what you can remember.
A. No, no....inaudible....
Q. We just have to let us have a short break for a moment please Martin.
A. Mmm, alright, yeah.
Inspectors PAINE and WARREN leave the room
(Inaudible background conversation)
Inspectors PAINE and WARREN re-enter the room
Q. Sorry about that MARTIN
A. That's alright.
Q. Bit of a technical malfunction.
A. I've had me Kentucky so I'm right.
Q. Had your Kentucky. Martin just, just to remind you, you remember earlier when we first started talking that I, I warned you that you weren't obliged to say anything unless you wanted to.
A. Yeah.
Q. If I just remind you of that and you're well aware of that and understand that you don't have to say anything if you don't want to.
A. No that's fine.
Q. Okay. Just so that you understand, that's all. It's a fair while since we started talking with you.
Q. Martin, on the day you went to Roaring Beach at Port Arthur, Seascape, did you take your camera with you, a movie camera?
A. Did I take a movie camera, no I didn't take a movie camera but I have got a movie camera.
Q. You have got and I suppose you've used 'em when you've been overseas?
A. No, it's only a small camera.
Q. Small camera. Are you a good photographer?
A. Yeah, good phtographer, yeah. Yeah.
Q. Are you aware of a you know, seasonal problem with wasps at Port Arthur?
A. Seasonal problems. Umm, not at all, not at all. Wasps?
Q. Wasps, yeah.
A. No.
Q. Well have you got any other ...
A. I'm allergic.
Q. ... Understanding of the term wasps?
A. No, but I know that I'm allergic to bees, I nearly died when I was eleven years old.
Q. Did you?
A. The sting, neck swelled right up and just lucky I got to the doctor's in time. Mmm.
Q. Have you ever been to Japan?
A. No never.
Q. But.
A. I'd like to go, 'cos the people are very polite and.
Q. Mmm.
A. Mmm.
Q. Just umm, before we go any further, I'll just, you mentioned the Ben Morrisson case earlier ahh, did that in anyway affect your judgement in relation to taking that hostage?
A. No, not at all. I didn't really want to take him, it's only 'cos I didn't want him going straight to the Police, that's the reason I took him hostage.
Q. Right, so the Ben Morrisson case had nothing whatsoever to do with your judgement?
A. Ohh no, not at all.
Q. So.
A. It's only 'cos I remember you being involved with it, and coming out of the Court with the parents and, and being on television.
Q. Mmm.
A. A couple of times. It was good, I thought you done a good job.
Q. Martin, getting back to that point about the hostage, you taking the hostage because you didn't want him telling the Police. What didn't you want him telling the Police.
A. That I took his umm, car.
Q. But I mean, if you'd have left him on the side of the road, he wouldn't have known where you could've driven.
A. Yeah but he could've let them know that there was a chap with blonde hair, took me car, stole me car. So I sort of put him in the boot to be safe.
Q. So you thought your looks that day were distinctive and if someone said they saw a chap with blonde hair.
A. Mmm.
Q. At Port Arthur on that particular day.
A. What happened at Port Arthur.
Q. Well you're saying to us that you didn't go to Port Arthur did you?
A. No I didn't.
Q. And you're quite definite?
A. I didn't go, definitely didn't go to Port Arthur.
Q. Well what would you say if ...
A. I wouldn't, I wouldn't pay the money to go in. I would, I would've if I didn't have to pay money.
Q. Well what would you say if I told you that you were seen going into Port Arthur and in fact you were at the toll gate?
A. I couldnt've been.
Q. And more than that, that you did complain about the price of admission.
A. Umm, I don't remember going in, into Port Arthur or going through the toll gate at all.
Q. Well as you said a minute ago, you, your description of the long blonde hair does make you umm, stand out from the crowd.
A. Mmm, exactly.
Q. What about your yellow Volvo?
A. That would wouldn't it, that would stand out.
Q. Yeah.
A. I had me surfboard on top of it. Mmm, I drove straight past.
Q. Well.
A. inaudible
Q. We have lots of people who are telling us that they saw you at Port Arthur and your car.
A. Well it must've been another, there's other Volvos ...
Q. With surfboards on the top?
Q. With someone with long blonde hair driving them or getting out of them?
A. There's not many with surfboards on top.
Q. You don't recall ahh, someone in, in Port Arthur, when you pulled your car up, talking to you about you're not allowed to park your car where you put it?
A. No, not at all.
Q. Is it possible that you could've been in there do you think?
A. Definitely not possible.
Q. Why do you say that?
A. 'Cos I remember driving straight past.
Q. Mmm.
A. ... inaudible ... Martin Bryant
Q. Martin, what if I said to you that ahh, neither Inspector Paine or myself believe what you're saying to us?
A. You don't believe one little thing.
Q. No, but we don't believe that you're, what you're telling us now about not being at Port Arthur.
A. Mmm, all I can say is ... inaudible...
Q. Why do you think ...
A. inaudible
Q. ... Why do you think we would not believe you?
A. I don't, I don't really know. Can't understand.
Q. Martin, I want you to have a look at this photo. It's photo number zero one one two. In it is a car I believe to be yours and it's depicted adjacent to the toll booth.
A. Couldn't be mine, where'd you get that. I don't remember being stationary ... inaudible ...
Q. Do you agree that that could be a surfboard on the top?
A. Yes I think it probably is.
Q. And it's certainly similar to your ahh, your car?
A. Mmm.
Q. The registration number of this vehicle I think is CG two eight three five.
A. I don't remember the registration.
Q. Well that's your car.
Q. So that certainly suggests it because that's the exit road at the toll booth, that your car had been.
A. How could the car be there when I didn't go, go there in the first place. .... inaudible ...
Q. As I said, sorry, as I've said, we have, there are lots of people saying that they saw you in the Port Arthur site and your car in the Port Arthur site.
A. Mmm, I can't recall that.
Q. Did you go to the Broad Arrow Cafe?
A. The last time I've been into the Broad Arrow Cafe was about, I can't recall, must've been two or three years ago.
Q. Once again.
A. 'Cos I haven't been, I haven't been, I haven't taken any of my girlfriends down there. Not at all.
Q. Do you remember going there about, about the end of March this year?
A. No, no, no. Was I there in March or what?
Q. Well I'm asking you.
A. No.
Q. Once again, lots of people are saying they saw you in the Broad Arrow Cafe on Sunday the 28th of April.
A. Mmm, that's untrue.
Part Five
Transcript 5/5
Q. It's untrue is it?
A. Mmm.
Q. And why do you say that Martin?
A. Because I didn't, I drove straight past.
Q. So how do you account for the car being there?
A. That lady could've drove it down there. That one, the wife or girlfriend of the chap I took hostage 'cos I said to get into my, the Volvo.
Q. Martin.
A. Mmm. Like I was telling you before, it's, it's true.
Q. I believe that you umm, took the BMW near the toll booth, not on the highway.
A. ... inaudible ... I wasn't there that afternoon.
Q. And what's more, I can tell you we have spoken to the people that say the car was taken from the toll booth area.
A. It's not true.
Q. Not true?
A. Must've been someone else ... inaudible ...
Q. How many people were in the BMW?
A. Ahh there was a lady, I don't recall if it's a boy or girl, and a man, there's three people altogether.
Q. Couldn've been four?
A. No definitely three.
Q. Definitely three.
A. Mmm.
Q. How many women did you see?
A. In the BMW?
Q. Mmm.
A. There was the lady and the child, I forget whether the child was a boy or a girl.
Q. Martin, I believe you went to the Broad Arrow Cafe at Port Arthur on Sunday the 28th.
A. That's nonsense. Like I said I didn't go to Port Arthur.
Q. See you, you've been pretty good with your memory really and a lot of things that we've been talking to you about, some things you're not recollecting, but you're very very definite now that you weren't at Port Arthur on that day.
A. Probably because I've got a reasonably good memory.
Q. You've got a reasonably good memory.
A. I would've definitely told you if I, if I went into Port Arthur 'cos Port Arthur attracts a lot of crowds.
Q. Do you like going to places where there's a lot of people?
A. Ohh, all depends who I'm with and ...
Q. Mmm.
A. ... What, what's going on that day and whatever.
Q. What ahh, would you say if I said that someone's identified you having a meal at the Broad Arrow Cafe?
A. Having a meal? I had a toasted sandwich at Nubeena and that was it.
Q. Martin, you haven't asked Mr Warren where the lady with the, with whose death you've been charged, was.
A. Yeah it was a lady, you, you said that the lady's name, you told me.
Q. Where was she?
A. Umm, I really don't know. That's like I said to you earlier, it was the chap that I took hostage and I reckon he was the one that died.
Q. You reckon.
A. On the murder count.
Q. Just have a bit of a think about it, about this particular lady. You've already been charged with her murder okay, just have a bit of a think about it for a minute. Thinking about it?
A. No, I'm thinking what this is, what this is.
Q. I'd like you to have a look at this photo. It's numbered zero zero nine zero. Okay. It's a white Toyota Corolla.
A. I drove straight past that day and I just drove past there.
Q. What about this car?
A. Is there a person in it.
Q. You haven't seen that car before?
A. No never.
Q. Right.
A. Drove straight past that shop that day, that Sunday.
Q. Martin, quite frankly I find it very hard to believe what you're telling me.
A. Well it's your word, I mean how come you don't believe me?
Q. Well Inspector Paine mentioned it to you just a very short time ago, we've been speaking to a lot of people.
A. Mmm.
Q. Who have identified a person answering your description at Port Arthur, at the Broad Arrow Cafe.
A. Mmm.
Q. At the toll booth. On the road on the way to the toll booth and also at the service station where that Toyota Corolla was. And bearing in mind that your car, registered to you ...
A. Mmm.
Q. ... Was also there at the toll booth and you're telling us that you weren't anywhere near it.
A. That's right, I drove straight past, so.
Q. So how, how do you expect us to believe what you're telling us. Doesn't add up does it. Doesn't make any sense.
A. It's silly, I mean, I wouldn't drive into Port Arthur on that day so. I drove straight past Port Arthur that day.
Q. Well you did, you did a month earlier. Drove into Port Arthur. And you were seen.
A. I did not.
Q. You were seen in there.
A. Did not.
Q. Do you know what's happened on that day?
A. What's happened on that day.
Q. On the 28th of April?
A. No.
Q. You don't?
A. No.
Q. Are you sure about that?
A. Positive.
Q. Positive.
A. Yep.
Q. Well I'll tell you what's happened. There have been twenty people in that Broad Arrow Cafe.
A. Mmm.
Q. Who were shot and, and killed and there were a lot of others injured.
A. Right.
Q. There were also a number of people in the car park were killed as a result of being shot. There were four people that were taken out of that BMW who were shot and killed. There were two children and their mother on the way to the toll booth.
A. Ohh God, it's awful isn't it.
Q. And a girl in that white Toyota Corolla that I just showed you. And we believe you're responsible.
A. You reckon I'm responsible.
Q. Well we believe you're responsible.
A. I only went surfing that day so.
Q. Well what have you got to say about that?
A. Well who's responsible.
Q. You are.
A. How many people died altogether that?
Q. Including the people at Seascape.
A. Mmm.
Q. Thirty five.
A. How many other people injured? Many?
Q. Well I.
A. How many ... inaudible... a dozen.
Q. Approximately twenty.
A. Approximately twenty. What seriously or not?
Q. Some more serious than others but they're all okay.
A. This is, I can't believe this.
Q. And those firearms of yours, the three O eight and the two two three.
A. No, that shotgun and the little Colt AR15 ...inaudible... I don't know about the others.
Q. Martin, we have spoken to over six hundred people.
A. Mmm.
Q. A lot of them were at Port Arthur.
A. Ohh. I mean I would've said if, that I, I've, I mean, don't you believe me what I'm telling you about them guns. I've never seen them other guns before in my life.
Q. ...inaudible... you said you had those three.
A. Yeah.
Q. The three O eight, the two two three and the shotgun with you on that day?
A. I, I had two guns with me, I took for target practising. I took the shotgun and the little other gun, the Colt. And I, I must've got that burnt that little, little one in the middle.
Q. How do you reckon that got burnt?
A. Striking a match, a match. Why did I stop.
Q. Where was that petrol.
A. 'Cos I mean that, that wasn't ...inaudible...
Q. Where was the petrol.
A. Would've saved you a lot of time if I'd been blown up with the hostage.
Q. We've got, we've got all the time in the world Martin. It's ahh.
A. Obviously I have too, so what does it matter.
Q. What, what matters is we'd like to know why you've done, what you've done mate, it's simple.
A. What have I done I mean, I know I've done the wrong.
Q. I've just told, I've just told you what you've done.
A. I've done, I've done the wrong thing by stealing the car.
Q. Are you understanding what I just said to you? 'Cos I've told you what you have done.
A. What have I done?
Q. You've killed thirty five people.
A. Ohh ... inaudible ...
Q. And injured serveral others. Martin, it's not Mr Warren and I are saying this. We, as I said to you, we've interviewed a lot of people.
A. Mmm.
A. And a lot of peole have identified a person with your description driving your car, killing those thirty five people.
A. Well all I can say is about ...inaudible ... to Port Arthur. All I know is other people have said to me, asked a couple of times whether I was at Port Arthur and I've said no because I wasn't there at Port Arthur that day.
Q. Martin.
A. I drove, drove past the Port Arthur turn off.
Q. Well we, we don't believe that.
A. Well how come.
Q. We believe you went into Port Arthur. Had a slight argument with the toll gate person about the price on entry. We believe you then went to park you car and an attendant or someone ...
A. Park the car.
Q. ... Said you couldn't park in a certain spot, so you didn't and sometime later you did move your car to that spot. We believe you went to the Broad Arrow Cafe with that bag over there, containing some guns and your video camera. You purchased a meal, you went outside, sat down, and then went back into the cafe. Took one.
A. But you might've. That's like me saying to you, that you were down there.
Q. But the difference is Martin, my car wasn't down there and I haven't been identified as being down there and I wasn't down there. And then you took one of the guns out of your bag and opened fire in the cafe.
A. Why would I do that, I mean.
Q. I don't know, you tell me.
A. Why, why would anyone do a thing like that, what.
Q. Well you tell us.
A. ... inaudible ...
Q. That's what we want to know Martin, why.
A. What, what, would, I wouldn't hurt a person in my life.
Q. Well you've already said you'd put the man in your boot of the car.
A. Only, yes, yes.
Q. Then you've set fire to the car and you thought that he was in the boot.
A. ... inaudible ...
Q. So how do you explain that?
A. It was a bad thing.
Q. Well it was a bad thing.
A. But I got burnt too so, that doesn't worry you I suppose.
Q. Well it does.
Q. Of course it worries us.
A. Well that's all I can recall. That's all I know. I've got a pretty clear mind.
Q. And then.
A. I definitely wasn't there at Port Arthur that Sunday or a month before.
Q. After opening fire in the cafe and walking through the cafe, you left the cafe and went down near the bus park, shooting, shooting several people. Then you got in your car and drove back towards the toll booth. Before reaching the toll booth, you stopped and shot dead a lady and two small children.
A. Go on.
Q. Then you got to the toll booth, to the position we showed you your car was in, in that photo.
A. Mmm.
Q. Took the BMW, shooting the occupants.
A. Must've been, I told, the BMW was back there at the Fortesque Bay turnoff.
Q. No, the BMW wasn't there.
A. Was it the same color BMW? Q Yes. Shooting the four occupants. Then drivinig to the service station near the white Corolla that was in that photo. Forcing the person into the boot of the BMW as you've described and shooting the person that was still in the Corolla and then driving to Seascape.
A. Did that person, did that person die did you say?
Q. Yes.
A. Mmm.
Q. At Seascape before driving down the driveway, we believe you shot at several cars driving past. Then you went down to Seascape.
A. I didn't shoot anyone.
Q. You didn't shoot anyone?
A. No, not at all. And you reckon you've got dozens of witnesses.
Q. Certainly have.
A. Where are they?
Q. Where are they?
A. Mmm, the witness. Have you got any other photos to show me?
Q. Well do you ...
Q. ... Do you want to see the photos?
Q. They're not very pleasant.
A. Aren't they ... inaudible ... I don't like ... inaudible.. I like watching videos ... inaudible ...
Q. You have?
A. Mmm.
Q. Do you like horror videos do you?
A. Ohh some of 'em. Sometimes they're okay, there's some good actors in 'em.
Q. What's your favorite one?
A. Steven Segal in it, umm.
Q. The one on the boat? A He was the Karate Kid, he was in Karate Kid II, did you see that one did you?
Q. No.
A. Mmm. Well what, Under Seige, yeah. Watched that heaps of times, over and over again.
Q. Mmm.
A. Mmm.
Q. You're in a little bit of trouble Martin aren't you? Would you say?
A. I dunno, I spose I am. I'd like to get, get hold of some bail money.
Q. There's no chance of that.
A. No chance at all.
Q. No chance of bail.
A. That's what I was, the Magistrate Mr Hill, appeal ... inaudible ... last month. He said, are you Mr Marting Bryant. I said, yes. He said, you're remanded in custody till this ... inaudible ... I didn't even come to the hearing, okay 'cos I wasn't well ... inaudible... I should see me solicitor about bail.
Q. What did you think ahh, the night that you were in hospital and I said you were being charged with the murder of ahh, that girl?
A. Bit shocked, mmm.
Q. Have you given it, have you given it a lot of thought since?
A. I just, want, I'd love to just get out of here now. Live a norm, a normal life. Will I be allowed to do that?
Q. Well that's not a question for us. What do you think your chances of that are?
A. Ohh.
Q. After hearing what we've said.
A. Well, I shouldn've gone and kidnapped him and the BMW. It's the wrong thing. That and, that and in the, being caught with not having a driver's licence. So they're the two things I've done wrong. I don't know why I stole the BMW in the first place. I wish I'd ... inaudible...
Q. Do you remember, do you remember telling me that you were being unjustly accused in the hospital that time, after I said you had been charged with murder?
A. No.
Q. You don't remember that? Well it's surprising because your memory has been pretty good about that. You can't recall that?
A. Don't recall that at all.
Q. Could it be that you don't want to remember it Martin?
A. No, I can recall you saying that when I woke, woke up, all you said was you're on one count of murder Mr Bryant. I said, what, who have I murdered ...inaudible ...
Q. Could it be Martin that you ahh, don't want to remember the events at Port Arthur on that day?
A. I, like I said I haven't been to Port Arthur this year so. It's true. I've got to tell the truth.
Q. And where do you think that leaves us?
A. Well you've go ... inaudible ...
Q. Well bearing in mind what we've been told by many many people, what we've seen and having spoken to you, how do you think we feel about this?
A. It's your job, you probably feel pretty good about.
Q. Why do you say that?
A. I dunno, just.
Q. I can tell you, I don't feel very good about this at all.
A. Don't you.
Q. No.
Q. Neither do I.
Q. Ahh, both Inspector Paine and myself and many many other people have been very badly affected by it.
A. Mmm.
Q. What do you think of that?
A. It's sad isn't it.
Q. And so have you of course
A. Ohh yeah.
Q. You're a victim yourself aren't you?
A. Mmm. I'm a victim.
Q. Well do you think you are? I mean I've made the statement.
A. Ohh.
Q. But you, do you think you're a victim?
A. No ... inaudible ...
Q. Do you think people should take responsibility for their actions Martin?
A. ... inaudible ... responsibility?
Q. Well.
Q. I mean do you think that people should accept the consequences of what they do?
A. Yeah I do. I spose I should for a little while for what I've done. Just a little while and let me out, let me live my own life. I'm missing my Mum. I really miss her actually, what she cooks up for me, her rabbit stews and everything. She's not even allowed to bring a little bit of food for me, that, that's a bit upsetting. Mmm.
Q. Martin, unless there's anything else that you want to tell us, we're going to ahh, stop the interview now. As Mr Warren explained to you, this is the last opportunity you'll have to speak to us. You'll be at your next court appearance, charged with twenty murders, I'm sorry, thirty five murders and ...
A. Just that.
Q. ... And approximately twenty attempted murders and several wounding charges as well.
A. Attempted murders.
Q. And also.
A. You mean attempted, they weren't hurt?
Q. Ahh, yes they were hurt. Some of those people. You'll also be charged with the arson of Seascape. Do you understand all that?
A. How months will it get me in?
Q. Well that's not a, a questoin I can answer.
A. And the arson of the BMW.
Q. No, of the Seascape. We believe you burnt Seascape as well as the BMW. I hope we've explained things clearly and you understand the gravity of the situation.
A. It's great to have someone to talk to. And you guys won't be in again?
Q. No.
A. To have a talk.
Q. No.
A. I'll miss yas.
Q. Now what's going to happen now, after we cancel, finish the interview, you'll be introduced to a senior police officer who will ask you ahh, several questions about the interview procedure.
A. Now or?
Q. Yeah in about, in a couple of moments.
A. Might even bring me tea in here.
Q. Well I'm sorry, we can't give you any.
A. No.
Q. Kentucky Fried.
A. It's sad.
Q. Extremely sad.
Q. Certainly is Martin.
A. Especially the ones that were injured. So how many were injured?
Q. About twenty. Some not ...
A. Plus, yeah some.
Q. ... Some not seriously, some more serious than others obviously.
A. That's what I ... inaudible...
Q. I might add, with all the people that were shot, were either shot with those two weapons closest to us over there, your weapons.
A. Yeah ... No, not the one with the scope, I don't know that, never seen that one before. Mmm. I'm not signing anything.
Q. Mr O'Garey will deal with that.
A. Not until me lawyer sees me. I'm sure you'll find the person who caused all this. Me.
Q. I don't find that a very funny statement at all Martin, to be quite honest.
A. You should've put that on recording.
Q. Ohh it's still recording at this present stage. So that is on recording.
Q. Like I said to you before Martin, ahh, like I said before mate, umm, we are looking at the person responsible.
Q. I'll go and get Superintendent O'GareY.
A. I must need a lawyer then ... inaudible ...
Q. You tell me.
A. ... inaudible ...
Q. We'd really like to know why mate because you know, I mean, it's ... inaudible ..
A. I'd really love to help you out ... inaudible ... but I can't. Have you had other trouble like this, dramatic?
Q. Not on this scale, no.
A. No. Spose it happens, doesn't it.

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